Her education includes a Bachelor of Science in Music Engineering Technology from the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida, and a Master of Arts in Management and Leadership from Webster University in St. Louis, Missouri. No, they won't deploy in that position, but they can and do attend annual training and NTC rotations and can act as Platoon Leader. While CTLT is a useful and important mentorship and developmental activity, many units see CTLT as a drag, and dealing with cadets as a hassle. CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. It made it very difficult to operate as an NCO under his command. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . The garrison supports a base population of over 16,500 Soldiers, Civilians, Family Members, and Contractors as well as supporting over 40,000 retirees in the area. Enough of my rant! I really liked the story and learned something as well having been a former SMP Cadet before I commissioned. Good answer. How dare enlisted swine preside over a command position? Required fields are marked *. They act only under the auspices of their supervising physician. CSM Craven has a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Management from Excelsior College. "The purpose of West Point, therefore, is not to act as a glorified drill sergeant but to lay the foundation upon which a career in growth of military knowledge can be based and to accompany it by two indispensable additions; first, such a general education as educated . Long story short: Years of hands-on experience trumps reading an instruction manual, This applies in every situation and every single time. Private Industry, n Chief Readiness Flight Eielson AFB, AK A (knight) officer is a commissioned officer and formally addressed as "SIR!" Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. It is a chain of command situation. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. And if you think islam is a warm and fuzzy religion, you're way off! They won't forget what you've shown them and they will resent you. Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. Oh please. One of these ignorant academy types was my battalion XO at Fort Ord. I think not. Are we really saying an NCO could not do that? Photo by Tarnish Pride Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). It is the oldest of the five American service academies and . Oops! 2-8. NCOs are the backbone of the Army and run the Army day to day (as opposed to commanding it). Other courses attended include the U.S. Army Airborne School, Air Assault School, Combative Level 2, Master Resiliency Trainers Course, Battle Staff Course, First Sergeants Course, and the United States Army Force-Management Course. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. In reserve and guard units, SMP cadets do hold assigned positions, but have no position in the chain of command. United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ West Point grads are elite and you know it, Ask any enlisted person and they will tell you that westpointers are arrogant and on need of a lot of training. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. Mr. Erik D. Mitchell assumed the position of Deputy to the Garrison Commander, USAG West Point (IMCOM Directorate - Training), on December 20, 2020. I am acting PL of my platoon because we dont have a 2LT. By Command Sgt. Boy if it wasn't entertainment at its best. Its cadets like you that become true leaders, because you have put your ego in check and will EARN the respect of your troops! West Point outlines quarantine, isolation guidelines in playbook April 1, 2020. the leadership essentially passed off their job.. but i ythink it is good these future officers learn from those entrusted to prepare the sustenance.. instead of those that havent actually been in thr kitchen for a couple years. In fact, based on my experience there are some West Pointers out there who never learned that. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". Sure I went through some hazing ( Sir, could you go to the motor pool and ask the motor sergeant for a left thermal heat reticle calibration tool? I was sent all over the place until I finally caught on.) I have to admit that when he asked what I needed I probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee. I just wished the device had been turned on when he was messing with the ground strap. Command Sergeant Major Fraser previous positions and assignments include G1 Sergeant Major, 13th Expeditionary Sustainment Command, Fort Hood, Texas; First Sergeant, Bravo Company and Reception Transition Unit, Fort Benning, Georgia; Senior Human Resources Sergeant, 501st Sustainment Brigade, Camp Carroll, Korea; Senior Human Resources Sergeant, 1st ABCT, Fort Riley, Kansas; Battalion S1 NCOIC, 2-4 FAR, Fort Sill, Oklahoma; Senior Drill Sergeant, B 2-39 INF REGT, Fort Jackson, South Carolina; Brigade S3 Operations Sergeant and Customer Support Branch, 1st PERSCOM, Schwetzingen, Germany; Personnel Administrative Sergeant, 87th CSSB, Fort Stewart, Georgia; Assistant Brigade Personnel Sergeant, Personnel Administrative NCO and Training Room NCO, 1st Brigade, Fort Stewart, Georgia. If married his spouse is always addressed a "Lady so and so.". A straight up lie from a boy who thinks book smarts makes him am expert in my mos. I have heard the saying "Stop being an arrogant officer?" NCO's look at big picture constantly, good officers are aware of this and cultivate this. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! Look at any Command where a COL thru Gen and you will see a whole lot of Soldiers both Officers and NCOs running and doing everything to make that command function! Upon completion of preflight we went to flight school. So this cadet would already be embedded with the staff or command team or shadowing the Platoon Leader, and would most likely have some, albeit limited prior service. By reg,they can't command or lead troops in the field. Your comment reeks of arrogance. So there I was no shot, at my first unit on JBLM, WA as a 2LT and I thought that based on what I was taught that you salute all superior officers. The cadet only holds E-6 equivalency. Master Sergeant Loy Song has played in the Concert Band and Jazz Knights trumpet sections, was a founding member and lead singer of the Benny Havens Band, and is now a member of the Support Staff. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. We can feel confident we did our hob helping train a. Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. It goes both ways and without Officers the Army would surely still fall apart. I request you review 600-20again. No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. Payback is one reason to avoid it. In addition, CSM Whiteford served two tours at the U.S . The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. Before anyone attacks me, I am a prior Army SSG who is now a MSIV Cadet (Active duty and Branched). Of course, there is another reason to treat West Point and ROTC cadets with respect: they are not going to be cadets forever. No idea if it is being taught now at BNCOC or ANCOC. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. Directorate of Public Works, n Director, RDT&E Division Port Hueneme, CA A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. Command Sergeant Major: CSM Scott Drewes: The West Point Band (also known as the U.S. Military Academy Band or USMA Band) is the U.S. Army's oldest active band and the oldest unit at the United States Military Academy, traces its roots to the American Revolutionary War. Things are changing around you and you're failing to adapt. In the military, XO refers to a second-in-command officer, or more generally, an executive officer.The XO typically reports to the commanding officer, who also goes by the names the first lieutenant and the number one. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. I really wish I didn't have to speak this way about you kids but most of you did the West Point thing for power or prestige, both of which are useless to Infantrymen, we care less what college you went to, if you can't think on your feat when round crack by you then you get my men killed. It was never the SNCOs, it was always a SSG, SGT, or junior enlisted Soldier disrespecting these cadets (myself included). The smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them. Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? Due to the nature of promotions in the Guard at the time, he was still serving as the XO and was still a 1st LT. when I walked in wearing my Class As. The U.S. Army, alerted that the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point reportedly violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) by tweeting criticism of former President Donald Trump and also targeted Republican Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, former White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Ohio GOP Rep. Jim Jordan has commenced an investigation. As the DGC, he manages Garrison staff operations in support of the United States Military Academy mission. When I contracted under the SMP I was administratively promoted to the rank and pay grade of E-5 ( I had served two years previously in the Army Reserve as a junior enlisted 11B). In the 80s I was an instructor at the ANCOC Leadership School. Specifically, it allows them to try their hands at officership, and to get a feel for the kinds of officer/NCO relationships that are essential to the success of our Army. I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. 133. Its like my father (retired CW3) taught me; " I don't have to respect you but I HAVE TO RESPECT your rank.". Cadets were not entitled to receive salutes from enlisted personnel. The authors creative example about an NCO looking at a lugnut and an officer looking at the whole vehicle is nuts (bad humor). While being true you must also realize there is a need for Commissioned Officers as well as Non Commissioned Officers. If you think a fellow West Point graduate is a great leader, see how she/he behaves after having a soldier vaporized by an RPG in front of him. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. It would have sent enough juice thru the not yet graduate nor commissioned idiots heart to stop. My first platoon leader was OCS, my other two were USMA. The Army has launched an investigation after the unmasking of a semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump, an Army official confirmed to the Daily Caller. West Point welcomed Command Sargent Major Michael J. Coffey as the 21st U.S. Military Academy senior enlisted leader during an assumption of responsibility ceremony Monday, August 17, 2020. But Im sure he felt stung just a little bit. After just two years of military service, Poe attained the rank of Sergeant Major for Artillery, the highest enlisted rank open to him. Mr. Mitchells awards include the Defense of Freedom Medal, US Army Superior Civilian Service Medal (x4), US Army Meritorious Civilian Service Medal, US Army Engineer Regimental Professional Excellence Award, Bronze de Fleury Medal, Secretary of Defense Medal for Global War on Terrorism, NATO Non-Article 5 Service Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Award United States Force Iraq, J-7, US Army Achievement Medal for Civilian Service (x2). Just try it. Whoever came up with this interpretation needs to review deeper. Combined Forces Special Operations Component Command, n Deputy Division Chief, Enduring Sites Division Baghdad, Iraq While it might be fun to haze the new margarine bar (he hasnt even worked his way up to butter bar yet), is that really the impression you want him taking with you when he gets commissioned and reports to his first unit? They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. They are TDY for a few weeks therefore their authority only extends to West Point. "b. Before joining the band, she served as an adjunct faculty member of the University of Maryland School of Music, where she also earned her Master of Music in trumpet performance. Sorry, I wrote that on the go from a mobile device, and can't edit it. I was at Camp Buckner in 1989 as my Bn (2/502d, 101st ABN) was slated to train yearlings. A the this leader our soldiers says to me that I did not ground the equipment right. Point is that one never knows what lies down the road so I try to treat everyone with respect regardless of their rank or position. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." This is more or less the Armys summer intern program, where young future officers get hands-on experience as a kind of third lieutenant, under the tutelage of a commissioned officer for three or four weeks. I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. Its not so much AR, but UCMJ. Seriously get over yourselves West Point you produce officers like any other university and they are no better or worse than anyone else. Mainly because I do belive the new generation of officers are a bunch of participation trophy recieving, never held accountable, privileged, idiots who can't handle that all that academy training and degree mean jack shit but to stroke their since of superiority over others. Still though, the cadet might be assigned to the unit based on the Modified Table of Organization and Equipment (MTO) to a non cadet billet. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. Or a sergeant major for that matter. This author wrote an excellent piece. Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. The Army is always evolving but power bitches have always been around, we just don't frag them as we used to. They clearly outrank privates and are often assigned to leadership roles, but they aren't yet commissioned. She is the premier vocalist for the West Point Band and first sang with them at their season finale 1812 concert in 1980, at the age of 12. CSM Cravens military education includes all levels of the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System culminating with the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. It was priceless to see the look of surprise on my former XOs face when I walked into my old unit on a drill weekend. I felt honored to have him there. We were enlisted in the Air Force for a two year enlistment. I have to say that I got a little bit of vindication when I went back to obtain some records from my old guard unit. WEST POINT, N.Y. - The chain of command for the U.S. This information was not covered or taught. CDT Vincent High marks! Prior to serving in the Army, he was a high school percussion instructor and earned a Bachelor of Arts in music from Truman State University in Missouri. Treat the Cadets with respect. Maj. Michael A. Crosby, left, bears the colors of Army Futures Command, as General Mark Milley, 23rd Secretary of the Army Mark Esper, and General John M. Murray unfurl the colors on 24 August 2018, in Austin, Texas A command sergeant major ( CSM) is a non-commissioned rank and position of office in the United States Army. Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. Master Sergeant Lane's professional affiliations include membership with the Audio Engineering Society and voting membership with The Recording Academy (Producers and Engineers Wing). Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. As SNCOs think of this as an opportunity to shape the Os of the future. Rrrrr matey, were be that 3rd Lieutenant. He previously served as the NCOIC of supply at the U.S. Army School of Music. I learned something that day. Cadets saluted officers of all United States uniformed services. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. (I was going through a few operations connected to wound recovery). This essay is an unofficial expression of opinion; the views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of West Point, the Department of the Army, U.S. Outside of authorized developmental training events such as CTLT, no NCO is going to allow a cadet to swoop in and take charge of his platoon, squad, or section. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. I'm popping into the conversation late, but I completely agree (not that you can argue with the regs). which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. You'll be hearing from us soon! This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. They are everywhere and plugged into everything. USAG Yuma Proving Grounds, n Principal Engineer Colorado Sorry- from a legal perspective there is a lot not discussed. ok Cadet, go right ahead. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. And yes the officer corps views your spouse as just a "wife.". Without our outstanding NCO Corps counterparts, there would be no outstanding officers. I bet they could not even remember my name. (1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command. She graduated from Conway High School in 1989. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. No one does this better than The Corps. In my experience we rarely see a decent new officer come out of West Point and it's really sad. -Mentor these young cadets so that they can grow into the Officers that will leverage all the outstanding traits of the NCO Corps. Both have an option for Cadets to be apart of a simultaneous membership program. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. She has served as Operations NCOIC since 2017. Interestingly, one weekend I had a pass and visited a college friend at a nearby naval base where he was undergoing Navy Aviation Cadet training. When you focus on things that scare you to death, always remember that those are your fears and we're not concerned with achieving the next rank or a nice review. If you salute a cadet, who is not a commissioned officer you would be making the entire "First Salute" ceremony asinine if cadets had been entitled to salutes the entire time. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. WEST POINT, NY (Oct. 14, 2016) - The U.S. Army and the U.S . Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - I believe my words only carried weight because I've already been in the Army for 10 years and the Senior cadre knew this (I didn't get in any trouble). Shiver me timbers he pooped on the deck. Wonder if each Military Academy Of other branches has the same rule/regulation authority.??? (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. Very nice endorsements. He has developed the course SS493 Music & Influence, which he teaches in the Department of Social Sciences. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Incorrect. Youre right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES outrank you. Tired of all the "barracks lawyers" looking for some sort of designated, assigned, or "official" trappings of respect; absent the need to EARN that respect. What comes after is when the real learning begins. Maj. Joel Crawford, USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major by West Point Garrison and Community 2012 - 2014: Col. Dane D. Rideout, USAG West Point Commander by West Point Garrison and Community 1 2012 - 2014 . The NCO referred me to AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320th Field Artillery Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, serving as the Artillery Command Sergeant Major, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Georgia, and serving as the Corps G-3 Fires Sergeant Major XVIII Airborne Corps Headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I do not cater to idiots and refuse to acknowledge someone that does not even respect the rank they expect their subordinates to respect. The one group that actually gave us respect and tried to help and mentor us were the senior NCOs. Sir. They dont commission until CW2 but I guess they dont really count as Officers either. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. Now it was said in good humor. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. Staff Sergeant Taylor also served as a trombone player with the 323d Army Band "Fort Sam's Own" at Fort Sam Houston. Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Its a Bird, Its a Plane, Its. We're also the one demographic that gives the socialist/communists nightmares because they know they can't take us head on in any manner so they go through the younger people to reach their aims. But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCO's authority and influence. On Thursday, January 21, it was reported that the US Army launched an investigation after the unmasking of a supposedly semi-anonymous Twitter account the command sergeant major of West Point Military Academy allegedly used to criticize elected officials and former President Donald Trump. From the enlisted perspective, while drilling with my Guard unit, there was confusion as to where exactly Cadets fit in to the scheme of things. And make it quick Lieutenant. My friend confirmed that Navy Aviation Cadets rated salutes by enlisted personnel, at least they did at that time. And yet, the UCMJ does hold all commissioned officers, including CW2-CW5, accountable for their behavior, as they are subject to Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming and Officer and Gentlemen. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander if the announcement gives the time element involved. I see that USMA had a proud communist recently graduate, he might as well spit in my face and all other better warriors than myself before me. You are absolutely wrong. They are legally considered E-5 equivalent, and aren't Branch qualified. In her free time, she enjoys spending time with her husband and two incredible sons. This rank business is a technicality of the rank system. As it turns out, West Point cadets *do* outrank Army noncommissioned officers (NCOs). WO1s even as appointed Officers are subject to all provisions of the UCMJ even art 33. We get people whose ideals are from left field and seem to think the Army is their play ground. Get off your high horse. His approach to us was simple and he asked lots of questions about how to best kill tanks and he found that each man has their own method of how they like to do things and tactics they like or dislike and for what reasons. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. Very interesting. Interestingly, when a graduating cadet received his commission, (there were no females in the cadet corps in those days), his commission was backdated 15 months to the date he entered the cadet program, giving him a lead on promotion to first lieutenant. We are all us. I was one of Cohens blue to gold mustangs in the 90s. Future leader in some position in our AF. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. We promise not to send you more than one email a week! His awards and decorations include the Legion of Merit (1OLC) Bronze Star Medal, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal (3 OLC), Army Commendation Medal (4 OLC), Army Achievement Medal (2 OLC), Meritorious Unit Commendation, Good Conduct Medal (8th Award), National Defense Service Medal (2nd Award), Iraqi Campaign Medal, Afghan Campaign Medal with Campaign Star, Inherent Resolve Campaign Medal, Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Noncommissioned Officers Professional Development Ribbon with numeral 5, Army Service Ribbon, Overseas Service Ribbon, Parachutist Badge, Air Assault Badge, and Drill Sergeant Badge. While in Iraq in 2003-04 we got a batch of 12 west pointer kids and more than half were momma's boys and short of a huge shift in their personality and ideals, they're too far gone in the head to be respectable leaders. I practice it for all things because that was my mom golden rule from childhood to yesterday (dementia stole her from me). I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. CDT military IDs show geneva convention status 3. I was now an active duty Captain with a right shoulder patch ( a big deal in those days ) and a couple of combat medals on my chest ( not bragging but including because of the story ). No matter what route an O receives his commission by, he will regard his SNCOs and NCOs who trained him with the utmost honor and respect. Command Sergeant Major Fraser has deployed to Kosovo and Iraq. Podcast *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal * U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs I had a CO at one point who absolutely had a genuine dislike for NCOs and believed them to be useless. When I was a 2LT, I always took the fact that Vietnam vets 4-10 years older than I was were saluting me as an obligation to do my best to earn that salute. (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and as such know who and where you are able to receive the BEST mentorship and hands on experience. Dont take it as a sign of disrespect however. Very interesting. You can't lead if you don't know how to follow. Pro-Tip: Don't make a blog post, offer a comment section, then expect not to be schooled by your elders, especially when taking a condescending tone. Prior to joining the West Point Band, Staff Sergeant Rivers interned at Billboard Magazine and Knopf Publishing. Im a Senior WO and I can personally attest to the height of arrogance the NCO Corps exercises today. They aren't " in the pipeline" yet regarding training , experience or anything else yet. While the other sources trained and commissioned officers for all USAF career fields, the Aviation Cadet Corps produced only pilots and navigators. Example: In the U.S. Military a Warrant Officer (W-2W-5) are commissioned but are not gentlemen officers. Cream only. The reason "cadets" are even mention in a gentlemans role is due to long ago medieval social customs. Sergeant Major MaryKay Messenger is a native of Newburgh, New York, and a well-known soloist throughout the Hudson Valley region, performing classical, Broadway, jazz, and popular music. In respect of ROTC, the R stipulates that only a contracted cadet in ROTC fits the definition I presented. Strangely enough, the Services expect the exact same behavior as "officers and gentlemen" (and of course ladies) from cadets and midshipmen, as they are also subject to Article 133, even lacking a commission, and some are dismissed from the Service every year for violating Article 133. United States Army Sergeant Major Academy 2003 Class 53 . You see there is a important reason that the strap be properly secured to the six foot ground rod driven into the ground. (3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. This does not mean they are to enact on that rank as authority has been given to the person in command of them. Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. I let crap roll off of my back, but when I attended Fort Knox this last summer there were way too many NCOs who had a big chip on their shoulder. So fairly similar arrangement as with cadets. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of Command Sergeant Major Robert T. Craven 26th Command Sergeant Major United States Corps of Cadets, West Point CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. Share on Twitter; Share on Facebook; . As corny as this will sound, the feelings related in the film An Officer and a Gentleman at the end were pretty accurate. The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. Correction The lugnut comment was in reference to comment 11 from Toga, not the author. We always give you a chance before we let you sink your career all on your own. Nurses don't outrank med students or vice-versa. Because according to the Army, they outrank me, sir.. The cadet does not outrank a senior NCO E7 or above. Somewhat surprised by this, and thinking back to my own experiences in CTLT, I asked why he felt that way. First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. ROTC cadets do too. The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. Eventually reclassifying as a MLRS/HIMARS Fire Direction Specialist, he would serve the Field Artillery Community in many positions ranging from Teams Chief to DIVARTY Command Sergeant Major. Prior to joining the band, Master Sergeant Lane served as head audio engineer at Grammy Award-winning Sono Luminus, a record label in Northern Virginia specializing in classical and jazz music. The United States Military Academy (USMA), also known metonymically as West Point or simply as Army, is a United States service academy in West Point, New York.It was originally established as a fort, since it sits on strategic high ground overlooking the Hudson River with a scenic view, 50 miles (80 km) north of New York City. I'm laughing as I remember when our sniper team took out 16 combatants at one road intersection in Falujah, Iraqi's have an average IQ of 70 so they aren't the brightest candle on the cake, lol. I respect ALL Personnel of the US ARMED FORCES and Civilians appointed over me. I don't mean to take anything away from the Point but my first platoon leader was the finest officer I ever served under. I work with my leadership and learn from them and they help to shape me to become a good officer. Only through a wriiten agreement from the pms tonthe guard commander are allowed to serve as acting LT's. DeCA, West Point Commissary adjust . single time. sgm guevara's awards and decorations include the bronze star, meritorious service medal (2nd award), the army commendation medal (3rd award), the army achievement medal (4th award), the master parachutist badge, the ranger tab, the pathfinder badge, the combat infantryman badge, the expert infantryman badge, the air assault badge, the el salvador I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. Hey brother. Without these people, "How do you become "ELite"! Sometimes cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some modicum of hazing as part of the experience. In flight school cadets qualified for flight pay in addition to their regular pay. indicating superior social status. He is actually correct, SMP cadets serve in ARNG units in the rank of cadet. But short of that, cadets can end up in just about anywhere. the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. The definition is enhanced further by stating Soldiers "present for duty." I thought this is a very well written article. So our government invested thousands on a lying, dishonest, ill-informed, and immature man child to lead others. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. They receive paygrade of ~E-5 however they hold a higher position. Sergeant First Class Anthony has also served as a percussionist with the 9th Army Band in Fairbanks, Alaska, and the U.S. Army Signal Corps Band in Augusta, Georgia. CSM Robert T. Craven hails from Swords, Louisiana and enlisted in the U.S. Army in March 1995. As he worked in our platoon, we all quietly covered for him, especially when he got misoriented now and then (analog land nav isn't simple, especially when mounted) after a few months he was squared away and we taught him our secrets and he never betrayed us. Am forwarding this to my son. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. At that . When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. Simple professionalism is another, Respect the service, respect the service member. Mr. Mitchell is married to his wife Jill and has three children, Connor, Fisher and Sophia. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. Death, disability, retirement, reassignment, or absence of the commander. However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. Nobody reads your comments past the first four lines. It is not just West Point cadets who outrank NCO's. In this case he/she is regularly assigned, potentially in an E3, E4, E5, or what have you spot. Your email address will not be published. And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. Adept been officially assigned a position in the chain of command? OK, fine. I hope this sheds some light on things. Eight cadet-athletes were selected to leadership positions and will assume their duties Aug. 10. We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. Mark C. Quander Brigadier General , US Army 79th Commandant of Cadets Superior to a mere cunning, lazy enlisted man. In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. You are not a leader because you graduated from an academy. So glad I longer serve. Her accolades include a Grammy Award for "Best Engineered Album - Classical," engineering and mastering credits on multiple Grammy-nominated albums, an "Award of Excellence" from the Audio Engineering High Resolution Recording Competition, and a Downbeat Award for "Best Engineering for a Live Recording." Thank you! I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. Per the order, they are not entitled to a salute. Before her arrival, she lived in New York City as a Kenan Fellow at the Lincoln Center Institute. Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. I found myself going toe to toe with these junior NCOs and enlisted, but not to destroy their souls (as the NCO in me wanted to do so badly) but to talk to them and help them understand that if you treat these cadets like crap, it will be returned 10 fold in a year when they commission, hate NCOs, and are their raters. If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. The smart LT listens to his/her NCO and seeks counsel from him/her. From the junior officer perspective we were seen as coffee and errand boys. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. That is why cadets dont go to parade rest while talking to NCOs. A very interesting thread. NEW! Born in Heidelberg, West Germany, of African American and Hispanic parents in a U.S. military family, she graduated from Oxon Hill High School in Maryland, where she ranked among the top-10 students in her class. Seems like the worst kind of leader to have. The key to success in your career is understanding the strengths and weaknesses of your key players AKA your subordinate leaders and junior Soldiers. That sounds like a fun and challenging job. The two year enlistment term allowed for cadets who had to temporarily halt training because of illness or injury. America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Col. Anthony "Tony" J. Bianchi Colonel Anthony J. Bianchi is from Tampa, Florida and was commissioned in the Field. The first three months were preflight training at Lackland AFB where we were taught basic military skills such as customs and courtesies, UCMJ, drill, Air Force history, parachute training, confidence course, and firearms training. First off the reg says regularly assigned personnel, which the Cadets are not. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. He recently earned the Professional in Human Resources Certification through the Human Resources Certification Institute. From the senior officer perspective we were largely ignored. Fort Sill Oklahoma United States Army NCO Academy Challenge Coin . Give credit where its due and stop making it about you. (Still, there is no need to salute them. Staff Sergeant Cardone earned her Bachelor of Music, magna cum laude, in . Garrison Command Sergeant Major :: West Point U.S. Army Garrison West Point America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Command Sgt. The regulations can only go so far in some jobs and situations in our Army and beyond that you need to be resourceful or have friends who are. Staff Sergeant Megan Cardone joined the West Point Band in March of 2011. I never saluted another LT after that as an LT. Other than those few, I feel as though the future is bright. I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. Technically. So when would a cadet actually be in charge? Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. Thought about it and stored it away and drove on. Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. The best way to train cadets to be officers that their soldiers will look up to and their NCOs will respect is to treat them the way you want them to act. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan (Ministry of Defense Advisor), n Engineering Director Kabul, Afghanistan I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? I say this as a retired officer. Technically. You probably dont salute WOs either because you think theyre beneath you as well. Appreciate your reply. Upon completion of Basic and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma he began his military career as a Field Artillery Surveyor. -If you are a Soldier and you are still carrying around the trash attitude of the "good ole' days", it is most likely time for you to go. Interesting because WO1s are appointed by SecDef on behalf of the CinC. . document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. So cadets are included in the definition. I learned something that day. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Your submission has been received. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Always seek the minority view of any situation or story! Every. Time to Plan for Drones in Other Domains, An Urban Warfare Experts Christmas Wish List, The MWI Top Ten: Our Most Read Articles of 2022, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. Is the cadet attached or assigned a leadership position? America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Mr. Erik D. Mitchell assumed the position of Deputy to the Garrison Commander, USAG West Point (IMCOM Directorate. Cadets are never saluted. We had a young know it all LT around the COMS tent he starts looking around and I see him messing with the ground strap the future leader of our troops disconnected it. It would be a very foolish cadet who started issuing orders to a senior sergeant. You have to look at national guard and the reserves. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. Sergeant Major Jeremy Schlegel, from Hanover Township, Pennsylvania, joined the West Point Band in August of 2008. West Point Staff Deputy Chief of Staff: Adjutant General (G1) Deputy Chief of Staff: Strategic Plans and Assessment (G5) Chief Information Officer/G6 Deputy Chief of Staff: Operations, Plans, Training, Force Protection, International Affairs and Security Cooperation Inspector General Office of Diversity, Inclusion and Equal Opportunity SHARP Office For lack of official guidance I was assigned as an assistant platoon leader in an Armored Cavalry Company and my platoon sergeant was a former Navy Seal with combat tours in Vietnam (along with other unmentionable places during that conflict). Each job is as important as the rest. Or a sergeant major for that matter. During cadet training we were paid at the rate of an E5. In other words, each the SNCO and the cadet would be functioning appropriately. The platoon sergeant major, and his cavalry counterpart, the troop sergeant major, were part of a project giving experienced non-commissioned officers command of units ( platoons and troops) formerly reserved for commissioned officers. Two of many subjects I taught E-6 and E-7 were Military Customs and Courtesy, and Uniform. You guys are all discussing how the Army does it.. Im AF and In Services(Food Svc) i was assigned an Academy Cadet to teach him what i was responsible for as a SSGT. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. When a cadet has to leave the USAFA before graduation, he is assigned to a reserve unit with the rank of Airman 2C. As for me, while a SNCO would in general be qualified to succeed a LT as platoon leader, any such succession would need to be limited to a short term basis. A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. How would a cadet be regularly assigned? So I suppose we dont salute appointed Officers either? Production NCO(i overseen what the shift leaders do as far as getting production done (preparing the sustenance for the Airmens consumptioon in accordsnce with AF Standards i showed him the Regs and the Cook production logs the leaders (shiftleader, 1st Cook, Baker Supervisor, bskers) follow at various levels of preparinv the Sustenance.. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. $9.99 + $6.85 shipping . You earn everything in the Army. School back in the rank they expect their subordinates to respect chance before we let you sink career... 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