I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. Over the last few days there has been a long thread about rods breaking at the female ferrule. Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? 0.214 Dickerson Rods Notes On Rods and Models Rod Features Rod Bags & Tubes Rod Markings and Script Buyer/Collector Beware Dickerson Articles About The Model Profiles Dickerson 761510 Dickerson 8014 Guide The Tom Clark Collection Anecdotes & Unseen Photos Dickerson Guide Series The Earliest Dickerson What Are The Chances? I can always build another and I'm sure I will. Over the time I have made rods. Browse our collection of vintage fly boxes and wallets. The 1st station on the butt section is NOT .214, it should be.208@0, then as follows: .214@5 It is truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? They turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. I think of it as an 8013G. In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. Worked well enough for me to pass the test. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. (Stephen Dugmore). How would you characterize their casting characteristics? I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. 0.266 All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. (Robin Haywood), Why don't you design some roll casting ability into every rod? He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. Great conversation. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), As far as being a Straight horizontal Stress Curve it makes NO difference what the rod is as long as the conditions produce a SHSC. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. (Harry Boyd). (Lowell Davis), The 8013 is definitely NOT a longer version of the 7613. Summers Bamboo Fly Rods Company Vom Hofe Reels Young Winston Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. Dickerson 8015 Guide Model Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #6/7, Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/3 #6, Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Fly Rod 8' 2/2 #5/6, Dickerson 761510 RB (Ray Bergman) Fly Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8013 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711-D Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 901812-C Bamboo Rod 9' 3/2 #7, Lyle Dickerson Model 6611 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 2/2 #3/4, Lyle Dickerson Model 7613 Hollow Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4/5, Lyle Dickerson Model 661510 Bamboo Rod 6'6" 3/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 8014 Guide Bamboo Rod 8' 2/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801510 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 7612 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 2/2 #4, Lyle Dickerson Model 761510 Bamboo Rod 7'6" 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 9016 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/3, Lyle Dickerson Model 9015 Bamboo Rod 9' 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 7012 Bamboo Rod 7' 2/2, Lyle Dickerson Model 861711 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 3/2 #6, Lyle Dickerson Model 801610 Bamboo Rod 8' 3/2 #5, Lyle Dickerson Model 8615 Special Bamboo Rod 8'6" 2/2 #5/6, Lyle Dickerson Model 961913 Bamboo Rod 9'6" 3/2 #7. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. I have also noticed the mention of a Dickerson 8014GS. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) The '51 is a bit softer. I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. (John Channer). If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. Manchester, VT 05254 Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip 20 .143 .292 A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. (Jay Hake), Apparently Dickerson didn't think so. Made 2 of the heavier one. I do find that I am using much shorter rods than I did, I think its the American influence of this Listserv! .266@20 Just for once I'm going to recommend a step down ferrule! Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. Take a Garrison. Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. The 6 for the Hex the 7 for streamers. Crisp, strong, smooth, versatile. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. 0.369 Pt Butt Tip (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. If you want to make one as a sort of standard then try a rate of taper of 13.5 thousandths per station, it gives a Gould rating of 270 which is a useful point about which to have a conversation with yourself about what you think is medium fast and what you think is fast. Jim Schaaf. Since the time he was with the Deschutes Rod Co. in Seattle he has built rods with Dickerson tapers. It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. Just have finish paying for the last kids college. This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" Tuesday - Sunday, 10am to 4pm, Winter It does handle a 7 very well too. It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. But nobody has a right to ask me to share it. (Robin Haywood). Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. The mid sections are very different. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. 0.248 For any thing else but roll casting or keeping a very finite weight of DT in the air, it's useless. It is quite different that the Garrison math method. 0.078 It's all pulled through by hand. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. 1 2 3 The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. 40 .202 .375 Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. 8 wt 0.0830 I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. The two different numbers are for the tip and the butt of the rod. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. First found in the United States in 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern states. Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. (Robin Haywood). My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. He can correct this if he is still hanging around. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. (Bret Reiter), I call this one a seven too. 0.160 All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). 0.174 Bill Wara. Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post 35 .186 .326 These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. 0.334 I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. I have just finished reading your post regarding Straight Line Tapers and Straight horizontal Stress Curves and I must say that you as well as robin really do need a refresher course in Stress Curves. (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. I use it as my Hex rod & for throwing big streamers. Digger Digere. The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. The taper is designed for trout fishing. I Have commented additionally, if trivially in a private post on the other points. by slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. (Tom Peters), Dickerson used step down ferrules, use a CSE Step down to recreate that Dickerson classic action. 9 wt 0.0890. Dickerson Rods. A true 13-14 step down. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. I only use short rods on overgrown streams. . I like Dickerson's fast action, but I have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made. Just basic principles that have been around for years. All of these factors when considered together give a better picture of the rod than any one does in isolation. Pezon/Michel. The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. 0.369 by LeeO 05/26/17 07:47, Post by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. To accomplish this I have added bamboo to compensate for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides.. Line Size Tip Size The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. double taper silk lines at short ranges. The trouble is, that's all it does! Powell Rods. Regardless of what any book says about what size ferrule belongs on this or that rod, i look at the flat to flat measurements at the ferrule ends and make my own decision about what ferrule to use. I have fished some pretty big water with this rod and it has served me very well. by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. 1951Accession No.1987.010.024Made byNARMCO, The American Museum Of Fly Fishing The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. 10 .310 .159 Easy casting and very versatile. 35 0.162 166451 13/12. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. (Dennis Higham). Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). Here's a classic Winston from the Hexrod taper archive. 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. 50% due upon order placement; balance due upon completion. All rights reserved. Tapers are very personal things. Different tools for doing different things. (Bob Norwood). .334@35 Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. Can you direct me to where I can find more information on this? 0.178 There are two Perfectionists on Hexrod. The resulting rod won't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! (Will McMurrey). For that matter, how big does the swell actually have to be to stop the action of the rod? Very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. Also, your shorthand doesn't describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves. 35 .188 .332 I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. Tom Smithwick. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. Find great quality fly fishing rods at an affordable price that fits any budget. Bamboo fly rod Dickerson 7012 taper 7ft 4wt 2/2. (Robin Haywood). 55 0.217 145405 (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. 0.178 A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. It was a rod I hate. As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post 90 0.296 157251. I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. CSE made the ferrule for me. Lyle Dickerson oft written about little powerhouse of a rod. You can built say a 5wt using a 13/64 ferrule and any of these slopes, and they'll all be 5 weights, but if you do the math you'll see that the tip dimensions would vary greatly. "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" But all right is not a euphemism for excellent. (Robin Haywood). About a week ago I was fishing the hex hatch on a certain small Wisconsin stream for the first time in many years, with a 7.5 ft 5wt, and actually wished I had a much shorter rod, given the overhanging trees. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. (Bob Norwood). The file will convert hex tapers to Quad, Penta, Hex, Hepta and Oct tapers. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. .288@30 So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. I can add that there is not one single straight line taper for each line weight. If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. 0.153 I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? Sold Out $4,050.00 Description Particulars For your consideration is a Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod made in 1948. This is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but all attempts to reduce the problem seem to last for only a short time. In fact, I use the 7613 that I made a lot of the time, even while Hex fishing last week on the Manistee! .350@40 Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. 0.320 Especially if you know how the rods actually cast. No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post I deducted .005 for the varnish. F E Thomas. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. 45 0.1985 I just fished them both side by side on the Green River. Bob through extensive research determined the tip dimensions for specific line weights and then calculated SLT for each. A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. 70 0.271 It also is fine on smaller streams. You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. (Mark Wendt). There are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I like the 1970 version the best. The varnish is in good condition. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. (Mark Wendt), Well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. (Robin Haywood). My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. Part of the midwest cadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. For each size ferrule there is a specific range of dimensions that will fit inside each size. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! (Lew) Parks. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. 0.350 BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. 0.241 15 0.115 163502 As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. "Proper amounts" and "correct points" are hardly scientifically precise terms, so I regret that I don't know what you might mean. To this Robin brings up the complications created by the weight and placement of ferrules etc. A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? 0 0.068 Unknown, so I would hesitate to speculate. CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. (Pete Van Schaack), Has anyone made the Dickerson 8015 guide special at some time? I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. Good question and I will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT. These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. I really must stir myself to come and fish them, it's time that's the enemy. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. A few of the tapers shown on the deflection comparison page are not listed here as they are from active rodmakers; out of professional courtesy I prefer not to offer those for sale. John's the guy. John Pickard only way to go. Since it was a know Dickerson Taper and not a myth I set out to recreate how I think Lyle would of done it and it came out sweet. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. (Tim Pembroke). (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. by wefishcane 05/08/09 02:55, Post Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. (Timothy Troester). Welcome to the Taper Archives; The data on this page reflects the work of generations of dedicated rodmakers. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, (There is a table of blue numbers for each rod section). (Larry Puckett), If you look at page 104 of the Dickerson book you will see his die set. Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. (Tom Smithwick), See what Steve says, lots of people (Americans ? .248@15 0.229 I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. (Will Price), I have noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 8014. The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. All 5wt with identical terminal tip and butt dimensions. Dickerson 8014 8' 5wt. As you know line weight do vary so maybe your 8 wt is my 7 wt, or something like that? (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. I believe he told me he placed his roll casting hinge 10"-15" above the handle, depending on rod length. 0.102 The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. It throws up some very interesting facts. You simply have to then adjust the rate of change of the taper - the rise. I would go with Thramer. The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. 40 .200 .070 The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. 0 .326 .180 35 0.1695 6 wt 0.0752 faster tapers. (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. . My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. 60 0.231 142296 On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. (Greg Reeves). Modified Lyle Dickerson 6611 Dry-Fly Action: 6' 6" 3 or 4: 11/64: 2/2: P702: Ponds, creeks . 80 0.296 121171 0 0.072 - Some people call them "step-down" but it is worth noting that the top and the bottom openings of his ferrules are usually the same diameter; the "step" across the ferrule occurred in the bamboo, not the metal. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. It you look at the 8013 it is a 5/6 wt with a tip that's a little stronger than the 7613's but not by much. Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post You are correct, this is just a way of evaluating the effects of adding or subtracting material from different areas along a rods length. I have built Russ' version, which I believe was posted yesterday, and I love it. At The Airport. They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). Leonard patent, I believe. 5 .096 .244 I would describe the rod action as very powerful, as you would expect from most Dickersons. 10 0.101 154505 "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". As Stephen points out if you can cast the rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together. We will see how it turns out. In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. 3 wt 0.0638 0.369 To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. (Chris Obuchowski). I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. 0.196 The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. 0.350 I haven't tried a WF6 but suspect it'd be about perfect. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. (Jerry Foster). The rest of the shown increase is, in my opinion, just for looks. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. (Mark Wendt), At least according to Jack Howell's measured tapers in "The Lovely Reed". His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. 0.206 (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. (Robin Haywood). Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". 30 .216 .099 15 0.1115 The Dickerson step down ferrule concept I need to know. 10 .112 .262 Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. So now where do you add or subtract material and what effect will it have on the rod. 2 wt 0.0585 Dickerson Rods For Sale (Al Baldauski). The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! 0.288 This in itself is a very interesting exercise. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. 45 .216 .375 I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were identical. Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. 20 0.126 0.292 Why do you think a7'6" rod is short for a #5 ? 0.278 I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. The swell starts at the 80" mark which will be under the cork assuming I have a grip and an insert roughly 10" in length. So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. (Nick Nasello), I made the Dickerson 8615 last year for lake bass and liked it but it does get to be a bit if a bear to cast after about 3 hours. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. If you move it up to the mid section you might add a hinge that gets involved in the normal cast.. which is usually to be avoided. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. 0.275 Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. They look very representative to what I have seen. The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. Measured tapers in `` the Lovely Reed '' is my 7 wt, has a somewhat softer tip the. 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